Homosexuality: The Mental Illness That Went Away

by Phil Hickey on October 8, 2011

Post edited and updated January 2, 2013, to reflect clarifications as a result of interactions with the many people who have left comments.  I thank them for their input.

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According to the American Psychiatric Association, until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness.  Freud had alluded to homosexuality numerous times in his writings, and had concluded that paranoia and homosexuality were inseparable.  Other psychiatrists wrote copiously on the subject, and homosexuality was “treated” on a wide basis.  There was little or no suggestion within the psychiatric community that homosexuality might be conceptualized as anything other than a mental illness that needed to be treated.  And, of course, homosexuality was listed as a mental illness in DSM-II.  (The DSM – Diagnostic and Statistical Manual – is the APA’s standard classification of their so-called mental disorders, and is used by many mental health workers in the USA and other countries.)

Then in 1970 gay activists protested against the APA convention in San Francisco.  These scenes were repeated in 1971, and as people came out of the “closet” and felt empowered politically and socially, the APA directorate became increasingly uncomfortable with their stance.  In 1973 the APA’s nomenclature task force recommended that homosexuality be declared normal.  The trustees were not prepared to go that far, but they did vote to remove homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses by a vote of 13 to 0, with 2 abstentions.  This decision was confirmed by a vote of the APA membership, and homosexuality was no longer listed in the seventh edition of DSM-II, which was issued in 1974.

What’s noteworthy about this is that the removal of homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses was not triggered by some scientific breakthrough.  There was no new fact or set of facts that stimulated this major change.  Rather, it was the simple reality that gay people started to kick up a fuss.  They gained a voice and began to make themselves heard.  And the APA reacted with truly astonishing speed.  And with good reason. They realized intuitively that a protracted battle would have drawn increasing attention to the spurious nature of their entire taxonomy.  So they quickly “cut loose” the gay community and forestalled any radical scrutiny of the DSM system generally.

The APA claimed that they made the change because new research showed that most homosexual people were content with their sexual orientation, and that as a group, they appeared to be as well-adjusted as heterosexual people.  I suggest, however, that these research findings were simply the APA’s face-saver.  For centuries, perhaps millennia, homosexual people had clung to their sexual orientation despite the most severe persecution and vilification, including imprisonment and death.  Wouldn’t this suggest that they were happy with their orientation?  Do we need research to confirm this?  And if we do, shouldn’t we also need research to confirm that heterosexual people are happy with their orientation?  And if poor adjustment is critical to a diagnosis of mental illness, where was the evidence of this that justified making homosexuality a mental illness in the first place?

Also noteworthy is the fact that the vote of the membership was by no means unanimous.  Only about 55% of the members who voted favored the change.

Of course, the APA put the best spin they could on these events.  The fact is that they altered their taxonomy because of intense pressure from the gay community, but they claimed that the change was prompted by research findings.

So all the people who had this terrible “illness” were “cured” overnight – by a vote!  I remember as a boy reading of the United Nations World Health Organization’s decision to eradicate smallpox.  This was in 1967, and by 1977, after a truly staggering amount of work, the disease was a thing of the past.  Why didn’t they just take a vote?  Because smallpox is a real illness.  The human problems listed in DSM are not.  It’s that simple.  You can say that geese are swans – but in reality they’re still geese.

The overall point being that the APA’s taxonomy is nothing more than self-serving nonsense.  Real illnesses are not banished by voting or by fiat, but by valid science and hard work.  There are no mental illnesses.  Rather, there are people.  We have problems; we have orientations; we have habits; we have perspectives.  Sometimes we do well, other times we make a mess of things.  We are complicated.  Our feelings fluctuate with our circumstances, from the depths of despondency to the pinnacles of bliss.  And perhaps, most of all, we are individuals.  DSM’s facile and self-serving attempt to medicalize human problems is an institutionalized insult to human dignity.  The homosexual community has managed to liberate themselves from psychiatric oppression.  But there are millions of people worldwide who are still being damaged, stigmatized, and disempowered by this pernicious system to this day.

  • Athena Koop

    Disturbing emotions are not necessarily driven by distorted thinking, whatever that is.

    I agree with what Laura Delano had to say about disturbing emotions in a recent interview:

    “The notion that [mental] distress requires something “needing to be done,” and that very belief system, I believe, is problematic.

    “With that being said, the first thing I’d suggest is to listen to the distress. Even if it’s horribly painful or scary or confusing or disorienting, it’s a part of you that’s very meaningful, and it’s a messenger trying to convey something to you. It doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you; in fact, quite the opposite, for it shows you’re sensitive and in touch with your surroundings.

    “Perhaps you’re in a destructive relationship. Or you are struggling to pay bills. Or your housing is in jeopardy. Or you’ve been eating toxic food full of chemicals known to impair the central nervous system and mess up the gut. Or your job is meaningless, but you feel stuck there. Or your only social interactions involve alcohol, which leaves you feeling alienated. Or perhaps there’s no visible thing in your life that’s leading you to this distress—that still doesn’t mean there’s something “wrong with” you. Maybe you’re feeling the violence, destruction, and neglect rampant in our society at a deep, spiritual level!”

  • Jimmy Quick

    Well, they are right. I have tried as nicely as possible to get you to wake up to the facts.

    You know, something that has always stayed fresh in my mind was the released government study on women in the USA. While they are not called homosexuals outright, no less than 50% have engaged in at least one homosexual relationship. By the age of 40, 7 out of 10 are regular drug users and the average adult female has had sex with 50 different partners prior to marriage.

    There is a reason that God says you are to remain silent in the Church and I think you have proven it over and over again.

  • Rob Bishop

    How can you deny this concept if you don’t know what they are? There are many cognitive distortions we all experience that cripple our ability to cope. We should be teaching this in our schools. That some people find their job meaningless (mentioned in your quote) is skewed thinking and an example of a common cognitive distortion. A job provides food, shelter, clothing, and medicine, so it’s a mental fabrication and a form of fantasy that a job is “meaningless”. How can self care be meaningless?! See the foolishness of our cognitive habits? Our cognitive habits are no more “wrong” than biting our nails. It’s simply that our perspective (which comes from our conditioning) can lead us down the road to hell. Millions dread their job instead of being grateful for it. It’s a wonderful example of how we create our own misery by the viewpoint we take.

  • Jimmy Quick

    I like what you had to say and I hope it felt good to get it off your chest, but someone is always gonna be more insecure than others and another is always going to be looking to take advantage of it. That is the way of the world and no program or person is ever going to change it.

    Learn the ropes…”rules are for fools.” That is something I heard a lot when I was growing up, and even though I never believed it myself, it seemed like the cheaters and the liar were always getting ahead. As I got older and now look back on those times, most of those people are dead, in prison or living on the streets.

    It’s good to see that you got your revenge on them all by growing so big and strong. Your mom probably had a hunch that might happen. And even better than that, you didn’t go around beating up all of the people you knew, who so richly deserved it. God does a far better job at revenge than any of us ever could.

    Please do me a favor and learn how to shoot a gun with accuracy and proficiency before you start running us all down for wanting to protect ourselves.

    One super important point that you seemed to have missed is, had there been a good guy with a gun guarding these children, that mass shooting as well as many others might never have happened.

    These cowards are looking for soft targets. Places where they know that their victims will not be shooting back.

    Our 2nd amendment is the only thing that has stopped our government (Obama and his ilk) from becoming a totalitarian state and more people need to wake up to the fact that without guns, you are just as helpless as these precious little school children.

  • Athena Koop

    I understand the point you are trying to make. SOMETIMES “cognitive distortions” cause problems, yes, I agree. But who gets to decide when a thought or feeling is “distorted?” For example, how long would you let a bereaved mother mourn for her child? Is grief “irrational?” I’m sorry, I’m just not arrogant enough to judge another person’s thoughts and feelings “distorted.” That is the domain of psychiatry, and you, apparently.

    You asked me if I agree, and I’m telling you that I don’t completely agree. If you can’t respect that, then I don’t know what to say.

  • Athena Koop

    You say the Westboro Baptists are right?! Yet in your preceding comment you called them “misguided idiots” (that’s a direct quote). If you are in league with them, that makes you, BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION, a misguided idiot. I agree! You are!

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  • Rob Bishop

    Distorted thoughts are inaccurate and untrue. When people are overcome with road rage and murder the driver of another car, the inaccurate thinking that creates the violent anger is, “They shouldn’t have cut me off”. We all agree the belief that anyone “should” behave in a particular fashion is irrational lunacy of the highest order. Most violence rooted in passion originates from this cognitive distortion. There are many others and we all experience them in various ways. When we’re mad, anxious, or depressed, it’s fascinating to confirm which distorted belief we’ve adopted (and then laugh!). I’m not judging anyone and respect your opinion.

  • Athena Koop

    Being mindful about the truthfulness of one’s own thoughts is a healthy practice, I agree.

  • Jimmy Quick

    You miss the point as usual. I am in league with Christ and on our best day, people without Christ are idiotic.

    For one group or another to get something right could be accidental and for me to agree with oner thing does not make me a supporter of everything.

    Bottom line, I’m for Christ and anyone that is for Him, how can I be in opposition?

    But people who are working their own agenda and blaming Christ for their misguided actions, I can not support.

    I would think you to be intelligent enough to understand, but perhaps I have misjudged your abilities.

  • Athena Koop
  • ClientSideError

    So you use happiness as a scape-goat to escape science. that really sounds valid. if we just vote it out then its an acceptable conclusion because people think so. clearly the thing about studying subjects like sociology and psychology was to no be biased. and when you let someone run the show with emotions such as happiness you’ve lost your ability to do science.

    Secondly if its such a concern then maybe study both kinds of people, because guess what, if one side can be found to be healthy and the other side isnt then you can look more deeply into the unhealthy side, you don’t close the book and persecute. if both sides are healthy then you can still go deeper to attempt to understand. if neither side can be considered healthy or logical, then you can start looking deeper still.

    Final point, your post “There are no mental illnesses. Rather, there are people. We have problems; we have orientations; we have habits; we have perspectives.” clearly you shouldn’t be posting about mental health or any kind of behavioral health its not about illness its about disorder the mind is much like a computer in that sense, if you don’t program a computer properly you get bugs. if a child isn’t raised properly you get mental disorders. You cant avoid mental/behavioral health because it will catch up to you very quickly and you’ll be left to either solve it or try to cover it up more and more.

  • Athena Koop

    How can you be in opposition to Christ, you ask? By continuing to defy his commands, that’s how.
    “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all you mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” – Jesus according to Matthew 22:37-40
    How did Jesus reply when asked by a law lover, “And who is my neighbor?”

  • Sally Snyder

    Why not believe in the Miracle Man? Morality is almost always the reason. The person acquainted with Christ’s claims, who chooses not to follow him, will often base her stated reason on an intellectual snafu, when it has nothing to do with it. This person often refuses to give up her cherished sin. Her love of money or fame or sex or gossip or wine or new clothes, those idols that take root in the hearts of human beings are the types of impediments that really block one from a relationship with God’s only begotten Son. Such a tragedy. He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. Or, what does it profit a woman if she marries the best looking man and sacrifices who in essence she really is.

  • Sally Snyder

    That is a big portion of the tragedy. A human being cannot find her true self without first dying to all she is. In Christ’s economy, to live one must first die. If one dies, like a grain of wheat, it falls into the ground and brings forth much. It is painful to die, to take up one’s cross daily and to follow Him no matter the cost. But, he doesn’t leave those he loves hanging on their crosses forever. The day of release does come. Sanctification does happen. And as we yield to his will, even as He yielded to his Father’s will, Sunday comes. Glory comes. Resurrection comes. Rewards arrive. Loving others with unfeigned purity fills the hearts of those who pay the price, to do anything to be like Him. And all we ever truly wanted to be and to do with our lives becomes our moment by moment fulfillment of dreams we dared not dream. We have, and are, inside of us, exceedingly more than we ever imagined.

  • Rob Bishop

    Death of self is a theme of many spiritual teachings, and was not original to Jesus. Other spiritual movements insist salvation is possible . . . that we can break free of our delusions. It’s painful for the ego-maniacal part of our psyche that desperately wants to create and maintain a self-image. But if we are willing to walk the path, and give up our self absorbing ways, we all have the opportunity and ability to experience resurrection from our suffering . . . as many religions call it, The Kingdom of God.

  • Rob Bishop

    Christians frequently preach this ridiculous misconception, that non-believers just want to go on sinning so they reject God. Non-Christians don’t believe the Bible is a divine message sent to humanity from an invisible spirit. Even if it were true, I’d have nothing to do with the Christian God, who sends non-believers to everlasting damnation. I’d rather go to Hell than support that nonsense. If you’d like to connect with some heartfelt ideas and expand your perspective, read the book, “Why I am not a Christian” by Bertrand Russell, or the movie, “The Invention of Lying” with Ricky Gervais.

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  • Jimmy Quick

    And I do. I am simply more enlightened and less afraid to face tough challenges. P{lease go away. You are beginning to bore.

  • doppelganger

    Yeah, baby! Right on. Tell that stupid bitch how enlightened you are. As any sanctimonious half-wit can tell us, Christianity is all about hating homosexuals and other jerks (especially uppity women) whose opinions stray too far from our right-wing southern baptist dogma, amiright?
    Preach that hellfire, sister! That’s where it’s at. You rock.

  • Jimmy Quick

    You done?

  • doppelganger

    Nope. You dumb?

  • Athena Koop

    “And I do.” You do what? Love your neighbor? Love your enemy? Hardly. When Jesus said to “love” he did not in any way suggest that “love” meant “beat up” or “put to death” or “despise” or otherwise harm or disparage. Your interpretation of “love” is quite twisted, to say the least.
    If I am “beginning to bore” you, well, too bad. You have a simple solution. Stop posting asinine comments and disgracing Christianity, and I will stop responding.

  • Athena Koop

    LOL!

  • Soulinscribed

    This is completely inaccurate. The truth is that homosexuality was removed from the DSM because the data pool of homosexuals were taken from mentally institutionilized people. It would be the same as taking a poll of mentally committed heterosexuals to reflect the general population. So, yes, there was a scientific breakthrough- as the study was published and recanted 4 years later due to the inaccuracy and inconsistency of the subject pool. They could not duplicate the findings when using a “normal” subject pool of homosexuals. Additionally, gays didn’t have any political power the 70s to “kick up a fuss”. Lastly, let’s really kick up a fuss, why isn’t big pharma all over making homosexuality an illness so they can push more pills?! Logically, there are unsubstantiated findings that homosexuality is indeed a mental illness, otherwise big pharm would be the first to be rewriting the books. This article is all over the place and littered with inaccuracy.

  • Soulinscribed

    Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. Romans was written by Paul. But I do commend you for using the original text of the KJV, instead of the version that is altered to add the word “homosexuals” that never existed in the bible in any context. Romans includes all sexual activity. So unless we are all virgins, then married, a sexual sin is a sexual sin, and we all just might be in the same boat. Including divorce, and remarriage. That’s why GOD has mercy on all of us for sinning.

  • Jimmy Quick

    So, when God says that He is the very definition and the originator of LOVE, your response is that He has no idea what He is talking about.

    He has put many, many people to death and states it very plainly. He will punish all unrepentant sinners, not just temporarily as is the way of men, but permanently.

    You have taken a word and completely redefined it’s meaning and expect everyone else to go along with you.

    The unwise are like water. They seek the path of least resistance to end up in the sewer, while the wise labor diligently to seek out the truth of the matter in order not to end in the place where the foolish dwell.

    You remind me of my little brother. When he was about 5 or 6 years old, he would put his hands over his eyes and proclaim, “you can’t see me.” While it was funny then, it was a sign of much deeper mental issues that years of therapy have not been able to resolve. Without going into your mental problems, I think you may have some of the same issues, and it is only fair to let you know, I can see you and I am not willing to go along with your silly little game.

    God is very plain in His Word and I will obey Him and will not stray into the go along to get along ways of the foolish.

  • doppelganger

    You remind me of your little brother. You have mental problems.

  • Jimmy Quick

    You are like an irritating fly or something. No one was talking to you and you want to get in on things, but you bring nothing of substance to the conversation.

    Is your personality defect permanent or can something be done other than to just ignore you?

  • doppelganger

    Thanks for noticing. Are your family’s mental deficits due to inbreeding? Or did yo mama have hypothyroid problems? Or both? Are you a bona fide cretin?

  • Athena Koop

    I am so sorry to learn of your younger brother’s serious “mental issues.” Child abuse, especially sexual abuse, can have extremely deleterious effects on a person’s mental health.
    http://www.asca.org.au/WHAT-WE-DO/Resources/General-Information/Impact-of-child-abuse

    Did you subject your brother to abuse?

    You are quite wrong (yet again) in claiming that I have somehow “redefined” the word “love.” In fact, I prefer this biblical description. You seem to be unfamiliar with it. From 1 Corinthians 13:
    “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.”

    This is how we are to love our neighbor and even our enemy per the command of Christ. If you read this passage very carefully, you will notice that in no way is “love” described as “disparage” or “harm” or “put to death.”

  • Jimmy Quick

    Well, I’m pleased that you would be concerned for a person you do not even know. That shows a certain ingrained kindness that often goes unappreciated.

    I love my little brother, but if anyone was abusive, it was him, not me. He was my dad’s favorite and quit often when he did anything wrong, it was always somehow my fault.

    I doubt you could ever understand this, but because his life was so easy, mine was made difficult and because he was physically and mentally so attractive, I grew up as the pseudo ugly stepchild. If he were the storybook frog prince that women could not resist kissing, I was the toad who would only give you warts if you got to close.

    As a result of this upbringing, I became resourceful, honorable, hard working, successful and wise. I learned how to see people as they really are instead of how they pretend to be. I learned to stay clear of those who only mean to do harm and take advantage of others. My weaknesses have become my strengths and I have profited greatly from the experience.

    So far as the rest of your comment, we’ve already covered this ground and it should be apparent by now that I will never agree with you nor should you agree with me.

    We are just different and you have your way to go as I do mine.

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  • Joan

    “Today thou shalt be with me in paradise.”

    Today? Paradise? But Lord, I don’t deserve paradise, for I have been an evil man. But you, you have always been good. How can you take me to be in heaven with you, today? John said we must repent.

    Because he felt bad for his sins?

    “Factors contributing to poor mental health include an inability to
    accept that life is uncertain and nothing is permanent, and the belief we are flawed defective creatures. People often embrace beliefs to neutralize irrational fears. Heaven is place of certainty, permanence, and perfection – totally unlike our life here.” RB

    “Jesus often taught about mental-health issues.” RB

    “You are taking the word of man (flawed and sinful) as the word of God. Biblical passages are are human translations over long periods of time. Not the words Jesus used.” RB

    “He said that a woman who was raped should be forced to marry her rapist…after the rapist gave her father 50 shekels (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)” GG

    As a part of the consequences for violating the law, the rapist was required to care for his victim for the rest of her life, when no one else would, thereby providing a means to protect her.

  • Joan

    You are certain he never existed, without any means to prove your opinion is accurate.

    Quite a few people described him. In many cases thousands of copies of what they wrote down are still available. Historical records supporting his existence are as qualified as any ancient documents we rely upon for information. He is mentioned in the literature of his day. Hundreds and hundred of millions of people testify to his personal presence and reality in their lives. He performed miracles like no one else who has ever lived. If miracles are not performed today, if that is true, it cannot therefore be deduced logically that he didn’t cause miracles to occur.

    Many of his earliest and most enthusiastic followers were murdered for clinging to their opinions that he was God’s Son. If they were conspirators in a hoax, they could simply deny him and avoid terrible forms of torture and death.

    They had no reason to fabricate a story like this one. They received mostly beatings and prison and death sentences for continuing to proclaim Him as the Messiah. Mistakes in copying the original texts are so inconsequential that they do not alter the essence and the comprehensive message of this God.

    “You are basing how you treat people and your way of life on a book that
    your parents told you was the truth. Think before you speak.” GE

    You have no way of knowing what his parents told him.

    Look closely at the lives of people who have been transformed by this God. Often, you will find they have turned from hatred to love, from drugs to sobriety and joy, from being poor parents to becoming good parents. Over and over you will hear them say that they couldn’t have made these changes on their own.

    The body of evidence for God-Man is powerful. Not every question or every disputed issue surrounding him may be addressed to everyone’s satisfaction. However, you, anyone, AnyOne, can simply ask Him to prove to you, personally, whether or not He Is. Done sincerely, wholeheartedly, He will answer. “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone should hear My voice and open the door, then I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.”

  • Gigi

    “Quite a few people described him.” Quite a few people have described being abducted by aliens so by your logic l, aliens must exist.

  • Gigi

    You do realize that all of the things that you cling to as truth — the great flood, the virgin birth, the miracles, the crucifixion and the resurrection — are myths that can be found in cultures that pre-date Christianity, right? Nothing that the authors of the bible write about was new. They were simply re-telling ancient fables. One of the reasons that Christianity survived where other religions didn’t was because Constatine made it the official religion of Rome. Constantine’s decision to cease the persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire was a turning point for early Christianity.

  • anonymous
  • anonymous

    Can you prove they were all myths?

  • Gigi

    The Bible is Fiction: A Collection Of Evidence

    Home » Blog » Philosophy » The Bible is Fiction: A Collection Of Evidence
    05/13/2007 | Philosophy

    Screen Shot 2014-12-11 at 7.03.55 PM

    Similarities to Other Stories
    Unavoidable Contradictions
    The Logical Explanation
    Similarities to Other Stories

    The similarities between the stories and characters in the Bible and those from previous mythologies are both undeniable and well-documented. This would be obvious if it weren’t for early indoctrination of these beliefs into children, which usually makes them unassailable as adults.

    In this short piece I’ll attempt to show extraordinary similarities with regard to two of the most important Biblical narratives: the Genesis story and the character of Jesus Christ.

    The Book of Genesis’s Flood Story Mirrors The Epic Of Gilgamesh From Hundreds Of Years Earlier

    Here are a number of elements that both Gilgamesh and the flood story in Genesis share:

    God decided to send a worldwide flood. This would drown men, women, children, babies and infants, as well as eliminate all of the land animals and birds.
    God knew of one righteous man, Ut-Napishtim or Noah.
    God ordered the hero to build a multi-story wooden ark (called a chest or box in the original Hebrew), and the hero initially complained about the assignment to build the boat.
    The ark would have many compartments, a single door, be sealed with pitch and would house one of every animal species.
    A great rain covered the land with water.
    The ark landed on a mountain in the Middle East.
    The first two birds returned to the ark. The third bird apparently found dry land because it did not return.
    The hero and his family left the ark, ritually killed an animal, offered it as a sacrifice.
    The Babylonian gods seemed genuinely sorry for the genocide that they had created. The God of Noah appears to have regretted his actions as well, because he promised never to do it again.
    Keep in mind the level of detail in these similarities. It’s not a matter of just a flood, but specific details: three birds sent out, resisting the call to build the ark, and a single man being chosen by God to build the ark. Then consider that the first story (Gilgamesh) came from Babylon — hundreds of years before the Bible was even written.

    Do you honestly think, based on the similarities above, that those who wrote the Genesis story had not heard the Gilgamesh story? And if they had heard it, and they were simply rehashing an old, very popular tale, what does that say about the Bible?

    Jesus’s Story is an Obvious Rehashing Of Numerous Previous Characters

    Perhaps even more compelling is the story of Christ himself. As it turns out it’s not even remotely original. It is instead nothing more than a collection of bits and pieces from dozens of other stories that came long before. Here are some examples.

    Asklepios healed the sick, raised the dead, and was known as the savior and redeemer.
    Hercules was born of a divine father and mortal mother and was known as the savior of the world.
    Dionysus was literally the “Son of God”, was born of a woman who had not had sex with a man, and was depicted riding a donkey. He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles, and was killed and resurrected, after which time he became immortal.
    Osiris did the same things. He was born of a virgin, was considered the first true king of the people, and when he died he rose from the grave and went to heaven.
    Osiris’s son, Horus, was known as the “light of the world”, “The good shepherd”, and “the lamb”. He was also referred to as, “The way, the truth, and the life.” His symbol was a cross-like symbol.
    Mithra‘s birthday was celebrated on the 25th of December, his birth was witnessed by local shepherds who brought him gifts, had 12 disciples, and when he was done on earth he had a final meal before going up to heaven. On judgment day he’ll return to pass judgment on the living and the dead. The good will go to heaven, and the evil will die in a giant fire. His holiday is on Sunday (he’s the Sun God). His followers called themselves “brothers”, and their leaders “fathers”. They had baptism and a meal ritual where symbolic flesh and blood were eaten. Heaven was in the sky, and hell was below with demons and sinners.
    Krishna had a miraculous conception that wise men were able to come to because they were guided by a star. After he was born an area ruler tried to have him found and killed. His parents were warned by a divine messenger, however, and they escaped and was met by shepherds. The boy grew up to be the mediator between God and man.
    Buddha‘s mother was told by an angel that she’d give birth to a holy child destined to be a savior. As a child he teaches the priests in his temple about religion while his parents look for him. He starts his religious career at roughly 30 years of age and is said to have spoken to 12 disciples on his deathbed. One of the disciples is his favorite, and another is a traitor. He and his disciples abstain from wealth and travel around speaking in parables and metaphors. He called himself “the son of man” and was referred to as, “prophet”, “master”, and “Lord”. He healed the sick, cured the blind and deaf, and he walked on water. One of his disciples tried to walk on water as well but sunk because his faith wasn’t strong enough.
    Apollonius of Tyana (a contemporary of Jesus) performed countless miracles (healing sick and crippled, restored sight, casted out demons, etc.) His birth was of a virgin, foretold by an angel. He knew scripture really well as a child. He was crucified, rose from the dead and appeared to his disciples to prove his power before going to heaven to sit at the right hand of the father. He was known as, “The Son of God”.
    The problem, of course, is that these previous narratives existed hundreds to thousands of years before Jesus did.

  • anonymous

    Are you saying aliens must not exist?

  • Gigi

    Quite a few people believe they saw the Loch Ness monster. Are you saying that the Loch Ness monster exists?

  • anonymous

    No. Are you saying the Loch Ness monster must never have existed?

  • anonymous

    So no, you cannot prove that all, or even any, of these events are myths. How about aliens? Can you prove they don’t exist?

  • Gigi

    It’s not up to me to prove that any of these things exist. It’s up to believers to prove that they exist. If you believe gods exist, prove it.

  • Jane

    Wow, I had no idea that homosexuality used to be classed as a ‘psychiatric condition’. I’m truly shocked. An excellent article!

    Glad I’ve read this, this is the most powerful example I’ve come across, to support that psychiatry is non-evidence based. Wonderful!

  • anonymous

    The existence of God(s) can be neither disproven nor proven. Either a God exists or a God does not exist. A case can be made for either side of the issue. Which argument(s) one decides to embrace is thus a matter of choice. We all choose to believe whatever we want to believe about the matter.

    I have made no statements about what I believe regarding the existence of God, but I will tell you this. I believe a lot of things that I cannot prove. For example, I believe in the heliocentric model of the solar system. I believe that the earth is basically spherical in shape. I believe that a person known as Alexander the Great existed. I believe there is a substantial likelihood that in the vast expanse of time and space, human beings are not the only intelligent, self-aware forms of life that have ever existed.

    I would guess that you also believe a great number of things that you cannot prove.

  • Gigi

    There are a lot of things I believe that I cannot prove – like the heliocentric model of the solar system – but there are men and women far smarter that I who can offer compelling explanations, based on scientific study and research, to explain them. There’s no such evidence to support the belief that gods or aliens exist. As I showed you above, most of the myths found in the bible were lifted from earlier cultures who shared the same exact myths with their people. There’s nothing new about the Jesus myths or any of the other myths found in the bible. They were co-opted by men who wrote them down and The Council of Nicea chose the ones that they wanted to be included into what we know today as the bible.

  • anonymous

    So you are suggesting that a thing does not exist unless it can be perceived, measured, or explained compellingly by an expert in some scientific discipline? Interesting.
    There are men and women far smarter than both you and me who believe in God.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/23/us/scientists-speak-up-on-mix-of-god-and-science.html?_r=0

    Why aren’t all scientists atheists? One of the scientists in this NY Times article states, “When you are searching for truth you should use every possible avenue, including revelation.”

    Another scientist mentioned in this article, Francis Collins, is director of the NIH and was the director of the National Human Genome Research Institute. No slouch. He is a former atheist who has embraced Christianity. Maybe you could put some effort into straightening him out, and quit wasting your time on the nobodies like me posting on this comment thread.

  • Gigi

    There are a few scientists who are Christians. The majority don’t.

  • anonymous

    A few, huh? Well, as everyone knows, truth is always most reliably determined by majority rule, right? LOL!

  • Gigi

    Good point. The majority of fundamentalist Christians belief that the bible is the literal word of god and that the earth is less than 6000 years old. By your logic they must be wrong, right?

  • anonymous

    I don’t give a rat’s ass what so-called fundamentalist Christians believe. I don’t believe that the Bible is the literal word of God, and I don’t believe that the earth is less than 6,000 years old. I also don’t believe that truth is determined by any sort of consensus, be it majority or minority. Apparently you don’t understand sarcasm, OR logic.

  • Gigi

    I don’t both and that was neither. Better luck next time.

  • anonymous

    Back atcha.

  • Sweetie

    Ad hominem is a fallacy. Bye.

  • Jimmy Quick

    Read that in a book, did you?

  • Sweetie

    Ad hominem is a fallacy.

  • Jimmy Quick

    I’d say it is more like a default than a fallacy, but what do I know? Your the teacher.

  • Fast Eddie

    Without personal experiential knowledge of Christ, one will never be capable of understanding life as it is. No explanation for why we exist and what our purpose is can shed light on reality without Jesus Christ slowly suffocating in his blood. That dark glass is too cloudy for even the greatest scholars to perceive the beauty on what is hinted at on the other side. Merle Hagart caught a glimpse of it though, with nothing but a bible and a concrete slab upon which to lay his drunken head on death row. Truly, it must be, only drowning men can see him (and little children). Einstein saw the glass, dark as it was.

  • Dan Cohn

    You are retarded, don’t hurt yourself while you sit there thinking of a “clever” response.

  • Jimmy Quick

    You have belittled yourself all on your own.

    Why should I say anything when I can just sit back and watch as you finish yourself off?

  • Sweetie

    Clearly.

  • Oosik

    People claiming to be Christians and yet would use the Sharia laws of Leviticus and Deuteronomy, are not New Testament Jesus Living Christians.

    They are instead Old Testament Christians living by the commandments crafted by the Pharisees for to increase their wealth and control over people’s lives in every aspect.

    Jesus said to obey his father’s laws. Guess what? There are only ten of them. The Laws of his father numbered only ten. As the 2nd covenant he stated his came to replace the angry jealous and vengeance of his father.

    Another way to identify Old Testament Christians is
    When they bemoan the sacrifices they made in order to commit an act of charity for a family and such.
    When they gather in public to pray.
    AND

    When they deduct their tithes and charitable donations on their income taxes as deductions.

    Depending on a person’s portfolio they can be refunded anywhere from 20% – 80% of their tithes and charitable donations. In doing so they shift the financial burden to all taxpayers regardless of their religious affiliations or lack of.

    They are getting rewarded for their piety whilst still in the temporal world . Their Savior told them in the Sermon on the Mount that there ain’t no double dipping allowed when it comes to being rewarded for doing God’s work.

    In other words the portion of the tithes returned is their reward. Therefore when the ink on their death certificates dry? They ain’t gonna get any Celestial Condo upgrades or nothing for their efforts and bragging.

    I’ve been a member of several Christian denominations finally becoming a bible-thumping holy rolling member of the Assemblies of God. I’ve even gone to Strategic Level Spirit Warrior boot camp.

    I know well of the New Apostolic Reformation movement and the increasing number of SLSW’s occupying state houses and Congress increasingly.

    NARM isn’t a single church but comprised of radicalized religious extremist hellbent on establishing Christian Dominionism in the US and then the world . Just as their counterpoint , another religion worshiping the god of Abraham – Islam.

    I won’t post the whole list of SLSW’s in the US Congress. Just Michelle Bachman, Paul Ryan, and -> Senator Ted Cruz!!

    I’ve sworn a lifetime oath to Protect and Defend the Constitution twice. I am obligated to the Constitution to protect the Freedom of Religion , this have, do and will continue to do.

    Currently this Religious Freedom’s under assault crisis is threatening the Freedom of Religion. The Crusaders are making claims which are patently untrue.

    No one has tried to tell them how they will be allowed to practice their faith in their homes, and places of worship. It would be a violation of the Law.

    But they wave that flag to distract from the fact that they are actually violating other people of faith or lack of faith their 1st amendment religious freedom protections.

    In order to have Freedom OF Religion there must be Freedom FROM religion. Two sides of the same coin and neither can exist without the other. That is just an immutable fact.

    Just so you know I am a Jesus Living Atheist and living the Gift of Life before it expires rather than sacrificing and submitting basically squandering the gift in religious penance for crimes allegedly committed many eons ago by a goat’s milkman having a dalliance.

    Thanks for listening and have a nice day.

  • Jimmy Quick

    A lot of typing to say nothing. Bye.

  • Jimmy Quick

    I like your eyebrow.

  • Becky Lu Lu

    I and the father are one. He who believes in me must believe in him who sent me. No man comes to me unless my father draws him..
    Before Abraham was, I AM.
    Having said that he existed before Abraham, they tried to stone him, but he escaped. It wasn’t time for him to die.

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  • Pattie

    I think homosexuality is a sexual preference period.

  • Anonymous

    The bible also says eating shrimp is a sin. The bible says that wearing clothing with more than one fabric is sin.

    I think it’s silly that you “conservative christians” pick and choose what your god sees and doesn’t see. You can’t just say “hey God says this is a sin” when it doesn’t pertain to you and just forget about all the ones that do pertain to you.

    You’re a sinner too, whether you think so or not. I’ll see you in hell; I heard Satan throws good parties.

  • Anonymous

    Jimmy ain’t quick, Jimmy still stuck 2000 years in the past lol

  • Jimmy Quick

    Please help me out if you want to be taken seriously.

    I understand this may be foreign to your thinking, but when you quote from scripture, you are to give Book, Chapter and Verse as a reference.

    That is the only way that anyone can verify the thing you have attempted to communicate.

  • Jimmy Quick

    And so are you, but there is a difference. I have a future.

    A little too Quick?

    Try this on for size. Millennia from now, when you are forgotten, but not dead, I will be living out God’s promise of eternal, unfathomable bliss.

    Now, who is Quick?

  • anonymous 2

    A 2-minute Google search readily verified that there are most definitely biblical laws that forbid the wearing of clothing made of more than one kind of fiber (Leviticus 19:19) and laws that forbid eating (detestable) shrimp (Leviticus 11:9-12 and Deuteronomy 14:9-10).

    There is more than one way to verify a claim. You’re just being lazy and obtuse.

  • Jimmy Quick

    Thank you. I merely wanted to verify that you were quoting from the Old Testament.

    Of course you may find this difficult to believe, but the Old Testament was written specifically for the Jews in order to have a code to live by.

    With the above statement I would include that God knows a whole lot more about his creation than you or I could ever learn. Surely you must agree with that statement or succumb to your total failure as a credible source.

    I personally am more comfortable in 100% cotton than any blend or synthetic clothing, but your choice could be spandex. Who knows?

    These things are not at issue, nor are they at odds with the scriptures. They are however a stumbling block for the foolish.

    Personally, I would prefer not to eat the fecal matter of another creature as do those who consume shrimp in the shell and if they are not properly cooked, they are poisonous to human beings and will make you very ill.

    If this is all you have against the God of the Universe, I think you are going to have a very hard time convincing any thinking person to throw away their future along with you because they want to eat poop and wear multiple layers of plastic.

  • anonymous numero 2

    You’re responding to the wrong anonymous. I merely provided the “Book, Chapter, and Verse” that you were too lazy to look up for yourself. It’s remarkable that you’re so unfamiliar with the Old Testament.

  • anonymous #2

    Ha ha. Good points. No cotton/polyester blend for you! And not just shrimp, but crab, shark, lobster, catfish, etc., etc.
    http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/about.php

    Yeah there’s a slew of laws in the Bible that so-called Christians choose to ignore. No tattoos! Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard. A son who disobeys his father and mother shall be put to death. Same for cheating spouses!

    I would not call these picking and choosing haters “conservative Christians.” Heck, Mennonites and Amish are “conservative Christians.” These Jimmy Quick types are hateful fanatics, plain and simple.

  • Jimmy Quick

    I’m too lazy? Thank you for your most kind observation. Good bye.

  • Anon

    Jimmy, I respect what you’re trying to say, because I am a Christian as well, but the flaw in your argument is that you are literally condemning everyone who doesn’t agree with you. You tell others that they’re wrong, why? Because they don’t agree with you? That isn’t right. God asks us to love others, no matter what. God also asks us not to condemn or judge others. Yes, we as Christians, don’t agree with homosexuality because it says those who participate it won’t inherit the Kingdom of God, BUT it also says that If anyone choses to turn away from their sin and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and let Him come into their heart, then they will inherit the Kingdom of God because they are then children of God. God loves everyone. The Bible does say that those who chose to stay in their sin and live their lifestyle and turn their backs from God, will go to Hell. if you turn your back completely away from God, then He will turn his back on you because you chose to live in sin rather than live in glory. He doesn’t look at us and say “You’re sin is worse than hers because you’re a homosexual and she just stole a piece of candy.” No. He sees all sin as the same. And that’s what homosexuality is, a sin. Obviously, that is our beliefs because there are people who would argue otherwise, but that’s the way that it is. You have to accept the fact that other people aren’t going to agree with you. But arguing and calling them names and saying they’re wrong, because in their eyes, they aren’t. We as Christians are called to be open-minded and listen and be accepting of everyone, not bash them because they don’t believe the same. We are to bare fruit. We are to be compassionate, loving, caring, understanding. But the way you’re commenting towards these people, you aren’t ANY of these things. You think you’re right because you believe so, but that isn’t how it works. You’re so close-minded that you don’t want to listen to what others have to say. And to refer to a comment I read earlier, not sure who wrote it, but God doesn’t make mistakes. He didn’t intend for the world to be the way it is. We were supposed to be the way He wanted us to be, until Satan convinced Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. He convinced Eve that knowledge of everything is what she needed and look what where it’s brought us (this is my belief, so don’t argue with what I believe, please). We were supposed to be united as one and be loving and compassionate towards one another but everyone, myself included, is so worried about what others think and whether or not we are to be on top that we only want to fight with others until they’re convinced and believe the same as us.

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