Thomas Insel: “Are Children Overmedicated?”

Thomas Insel, MD, is the Director of the National Institute of Mental Health.  In June of last year, he published, on the Director’s Blog, an article titled Are Children Overmedicated?  The gist of the article is that children are not being overmedicated, but rather that there is an increase in “severe psychiatric problems” in this population.

Here are some quotes, interspersed with my comments.

“The latest estimate from the National Center for Health Statistics reports that 7.5 percent of U.S. children between ages 6 and 17 were taking medication for ’emotional or behavioral difficulties’ in 2011-2012. The CDC reports a five-fold increase in the number of children under 18 on psychostimulants from 1988-1994 to 2007–2010, with the most recent rate of 4.2 percent. The same report estimates that 1.3 percent of children are on antidepressants. The rate of antipsychotic prescriptions for children has increased six-fold over this same period, according to a study of office visits within the National Ambulatory Medical Care Survey. In children under age 5, psychotropic prescription rates peaked at 1.45 percent in 2002-2005 and declined to 1.00 percent from 2006-2009.”

Dr. Insel points out that psychiatrists, parents, schools, and drug companies are often blamed for these increases. He challenges these perspectives.

“…most of the prescriptions for stimulant drugs and antidepressants are not from psychiatrists.”

This is a frequently-heard psychiatric assertion, but it is beside the point.  It is indeed the case that GP’s and various medical specialists prescribe psychiatric drugs for various problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving, but they can only do so because psychiatry has developed and promoted the fiction that these problems are illnesses, and the drugs are medications.  In fact, it’s even worse than that.  Psychiatry’s spurious medicalization of all human problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving has been so thoroughly integrated into mainstream medical care, that a physician who doesn’t prescribe psychiatric pills in certain situations could find himself legally liable for malpractice in the event of an adverse outcome.

Dr. Insel provides equally facile reasons why parents, schools, and drug companies are not to blame for the increased drugging of children. And with that whole issue out of the way, he continues:

“If psychiatrists, parents, schools, or drug companies are not the culprit, who is? The answer is potentially more complicated and more worrisome. Is it possible that the increased use of medication is not the problem but a symptom? What if more children were struggling with severe psychiatric problems and actually the problem was not over-treatment but increased need? Surely, if we discovered more children were being treated for diabetes or immune problems, we wouldn’t blame the providers or the parents. We’d be asking what drives the increase in incidence.”

Note how Dr. Insel equates psychiatric problems with real illnesses such as diabetes and immune problems.  The big difference, of course, is that real physicians don’t invent the illnesses they treat, as do psychiatrists.  Yes, more children today are “struggling with severe psychiatric problems”, but the primary reason for this is that pharma-psychiatry has been so successful in promoting the notion that virtually every problem that a child could display is an illness which needs to be “treated” with psychiatric drugs.  Former generations regarded childhood temper tantrums as a problem that needed to be addressed by parents using the normal time-honored ways.  Today these temper tantrums are a “symptom” of “disruptive mood dysregulation disorder”, a severe “psychiatric illness” warranting the attention of psychiatrists and the prescription of drugs.  There is, in fact, no difference between the temper tantrums of former years and disruptive mood dysregulation disorder of today. All that’s changed is that psychiatry has, once more, expanded its turf through the simple expedient of creating yet another “illness” by voting it into existence.  Similar observations apply to childhood inattentiveness, defiance, misconduct, boredom, etc…

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

“Skepticism regarding increased rates of emotional and behavioral difficulties as opposed to increases in other medical disorders can be attributed in part to the absence of biomarkers or laboratory tests for psychiatric diagnosis comparable to glucose tolerance tests for diabetes or anaphylactic reactions for allergies. Absent these kinds of consistent, objective measures for mental disorders, we cannot distinguish between a true increase in the number of children affected or simply changing values or trends in diagnosis. Clearly context matters. What one parent might consider hyperactivity, another parent might consider healthy exuberance.  What physicians once called attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), often now elicits a diagnosis of childhood bipolar disorder, leading to a 40-fold increase in prevalence from 1994-1995 to 2002-2003.”

So, skepticism regarding the increased rates can be attributed partly to the absence of biomarkers.  This is true, but it is not the central issue.  The central issue is that for at least the last fifty years, organized psychiatry’s primary agenda has been the medicalization of all significant problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving.  They have asserted, without evidence, that these problems are illnesses and have even concocted baseless neurological pathologies as putative causes of these so-called illnesses.  By comparison, the absence of biomarkers or lab tests is a trivial issue.

And note the extraordinary dexterity with which Dr. Insel trivializes the 40-fold increase in the prevalence of “childhood bipolar disorder”.  This increase was driven largely by the efforts of Joseph Biederman, MD, and caused such a scandal that the APA created the label “disruptive mood dysregulation disorder” for the express purpose of reducing the use of the bipolar label.  This whole business was a very black chapter in a profession not noted for its moral or intellectual integrity, and resulted not only in a 40-fold increase in the “diagnosis of bipolar disorder”, but also an unprecedented increase in the prescription of neuroleptic drugs to children.  But Dr. Insel spins Dr. Biederman’s excesses as comparable to two parents holding different views as to the significance of a child’s hyperactivity.  Oh my!  What a fuss about nothing!

And incidentally, on the subject of biomarkers and lab tests, there are still vast numbers of psychiatric “patients” who have swallowed the psychiatric lie, and who believe that a scan of their brains would reveal the putative pathology.  Why is it that the Director of the NIMH will acknowledge on his blog that no biomarkers or lab tests exist to confirm a psychiatric “illness”, but has taken no steps to enlighten the general public on this matter?  Why is the NIMH not screaming this message from the rooftops, and calling for the censure of those psychiatrists and drug companies who continue to deceive their clients and the public in this way?

“No question, in a field without biomarkers, there is a risk of over-diagnosis. No question, subjective diagnosis could invite unnecessary treatment and over-medication. But what if the increased use of medication reflected more children with severe developmental problems and more families in crisis? What if the bigger problem is not over-medication but under-treatment? Hearing that 7.5 percent of children are on medication (4.2 percent on psychostimulants) seems stunning, but knowing that 11 percent of children have a diagnosis of ADHD raises a possibility of under-treatment.”

Dr. Insel concedes a “risk of over-diagnosis” and the possibility of “unnecessary treatment and over-medication”.  But his terminology is problematic.  “Over-diagnosis” or, for that matter “under-diagnosis”, inevitably implies that there is a correct level of diagnosis.  To take an analogy from general medicine, there is a rare autoimmune disease called Wegener’s granulomatosis.  It is generally acknowledged that this illness is under-diagnosed.  In other words, a certain proportion of people who really have this disease are not so diagnosed during medical examinations. But the point is that the terms under-diagnosis and over-diagnosis only have meaning in reference to something that is reliably definable, a condition which does not apply to psychiatric “illness”.  Psychiatric “illnesses” are nothing more than loose clusters of vaguely defined problems of thinking feeling, and/or behaving.  There is no accurate or real level of diagnosis against which judgments of over-, or under-, diagnosis can be made.

But Dr. Insel makes no attempt to address this question of possible “over-diagnosis” and “over-medication”.  Instead, he goes straight to the heart of psychiatry’s ever-expansionist agenda:  “What if the bigger problem is not over-medication, but under-treatment?”

This, incidentally, is the same Dr. Insel who in April 2013 wrote:

“While DSM has been described as a ‘Bible’ for the field, it is, at best, a dictionary, creating a set of labels and defining each. The strength of each of the editions of DSM has been ‘reliability’ – each edition has ensured that clinicians use the same terms in the same ways. The weakness is its lack of validity. Unlike our definitions of ischemic heart disease, lymphoma, or AIDS, the DSM diagnoses are based on a consensus about clusters of clinical symptoms, not any objective laboratory measure. In the rest of medicine, this would be equivalent to creating diagnostic systems based on the nature of chest pain or the quality of fever. Indeed, symptom-based diagnosis, once common in other areas of medicine, has been largely replaced in the past half century as we have understood that symptoms alone rarely indicate the best choice of treatment.” [Emphasis added]

 So, although “symptoms alone rarely indicate the best choice of treatment”, here he comes, a year later, expressing concern that only 4.2% of America’s children are taking stimulant drugs, when 11% have “a diagnosis of ADHD.”  The clear implication being, that if a child has this invalid diagnosis, he should be taking the pills.

 “What I hear from families in crisis is lack of access, poor quality care, and a desperate need for answers. In the media reports on over-medicating children, this perspective is missing. The possibility that there is a real increase in the number of children suffering with severe emotional problems, just as there is a real increase in the number of children with diabetes and food allergies, is not even considered. Shouldn’t we be asking why so many children, at younger ages, are being seen for emotional and behavioral problems?”

To which I can only reply:  “Yes, Dr. Insel, we certainly should!”

And we should also be asking why the Director of the NIMH, the nation’s think-tank on mental health matters, is addressing these profound and controversial issues in such misleadingly simplistic terms.

  • Posted the following to my Facebook Timeline:

    A New Entry in Phillip Hickey’s “Behaviorism and Mental Health” Blog:

    Dr. Hickey begins:

    “Thomas Insel, MD, is the Director of the National Institute of Mental
    Health. In June of last year, he published, on the Director’s Blog, an
    article titled Are Children Overmedicated? The gist of the article is
    that children are not being overmedicated, but rather that there is an
    increase in “severe psychiatric problems” in this population.”

    My personal note to Dr Insel: wake up and smell the coffee, you
    ignoramus! And then resign your post. You have just demonstrated that
    you are not competent to lead NIMH.


  • cledwyn goodpuds

    Insel is suffering from an advanced case of the furor therapeuticus, a devastating brain disease characterized by hallucinations that lead whomsoever the disease afflicts to see illnesses everywhere in need of cure. It is also characterized by delusions of medical authority.

    This disease is particularly common amongst powerful quacks. Given the fact that the dangerousness of a belief is directly proportional to the power of its possessor, it’s a particularly dangerous disease, and one for which there is a moral imperative to treat, lest more lives are lost to untreated furor therapeuticus.

    Civil libertarians may not like it, but people have a right to be protected from dangerous, untreated furor therapeuticus. Enough’s enough.

    Alas, the sufferer from furor therapeuticus (more commonly known as mad quack’s disease) lacks insight into his DISEASE, so he must be treated irrespective of his protestations.

    Seriously though, who would have thought that the playground, the creche, and the incubator, would become recruiting grounds for psychiatric slave?

    O tempora o mores!

    Under the mass hypnosis of the unholy trinity of custom, law and convention, is there any lunacy or atrocity that the masses won’t support?

    Men have a tendency to measure a view or a practice, and the moral propriety or impropriety, sanity or insanity, thereof, by the degree of their correspondence with the example set by law, custom, and convention, to which they defer out of their native distrust in their own judgement, which they esteem to be of no-account in the reckoning of most things, though in following their example they are nevertheless apt to delude themselves that it is their own judgement they exercise.

    This distrust renders only too easy the enlistment of their support for all manner of depravities, follies, and lunacies, though they flatter themselves that they arrive thereat through discourse of reason.

    If only we could we could come to a true understanding of how fluxional human society is, viewing things sub species aeternitatis, an understanding of how the truths, customs, institutions, laws, and axioms of today will one day be tomorrow’s delusions, follies and relics, thereby breaking the hold of custom, law, and convention on men’s minds; then we could perhaps avert such atrocities as the mass drugging of children with some of the most toxic agents in the entire pharmacopeia, to which few people would acquiesce if it wasn’t for the abdication en masse of the responsibility of thinking for ourselves, as opposed to the blind faith we repose in our customs, laws, authoritative opinion, and the common example.

  • no

    Would you please provide evidence that ADHD is fictitious? Thanks

  • no

    How much is too much? If the drug manufacturers kept quiet, and psychiatrists didn’t rely on the literature, how many children, teens and adults with ADHD would be suffering needlessly?

  • A better question might be how many children, teens and adults would be far better off in reduced medication side effects which include obesity, depression, and occasionally suicide. Dr. Allen Frances (Task Force chair for the DSM-IV development process, and among many others) has written persuasively in his Blog on Psychology Today and in his book “Saving Normal” that ADHD is massively over-diagnosed and over-treated, with widespread negative side effects on many who are so treated. I’m sure Phil can quote additional sources.

  • cledwyn goodpuds

    “…how many children, teens and adults with ADHD would be suffering needlessly?”

    Uh, not as many as are now suffering from the iatrogenic epidemic unleashed by psychiatry, I would surmise.

    The notion that people are suffering needlessly implicitly postulates the existence of drugs that can literally cure the problems in feeling, thinking and behaving people experience, and that the benefits thereof outweigh the harms. This is isn’t true.

    Psychiatry lures the patient, like a moth to the flame, with the promise of sublunary salvation and beatitude, yet all its promises are mere snares by which the patient is delivered over to the suffering he sought deliverance from.

    It is one of the great ironies of history that Utopianism (of which psychiatry is another avatar), and the schemes it has spawned with an eye to ending human suffering, has/have only augmented the species’ quotient thereof. This irony dissipates though when one apprehends correctly that this is usually only the avowed purpose of said schemes, which in fact, as is the case with organized psychiatry, have for their object power, and specifically in this case the exploitation of people for profit, which is largely what this racket, this fraudulent endeavor perpetrated on a mass scale, is all about.

  • Rebecca Smith

    I can say this whoever decided adhd is only helped with meds did not meet me and my son. Not everything can be fixed by a pill. My son cannot take those nice workable meds. I was pretty much told he needs the meds. He cannot take them. Sorry if whoever thinks the director is in the right place he should not be there. Some people cannot take meds for whatever reason, and get pushed in a disease or code. psychiatry needs to meet the people who cannot take the drugs a way to get help not penalized.

  • Rebecca Smith

    I am so tired of the holier than thou people who tout meds as if they are the best way to help. I cant take the meds why because i have an anomoly, and so does my son. Guess what they get pushed on us and it got my son taken from me. Why? Because the medical community took if with my mental health issues. I have real diseas like syringomyelia. Look it up. Caused my health issues, but guess what the label bipolar screwed me over. Damned pills and the higher power of money. My son is not going to be drawn into this crap. Go ahead and debate me. I could lose feelings in my legs because they used my mental health first. What do i get? Not anything but worsening symptoms could have been at least put off for more years. Why cause this damned label had taken me being smart look stupid when i decided to fight for my health my physical health. I will not back even adhd meds except for meds should be used for short term and then give us real help. Like other ways with or without meds. Fight me over this it is the truth. Think reason this time it is a hype To think long term meds help everyone. If they do, they do, but if they do not give those people a chance to use what help we can get and boost that too. Psychlogical treatment can work if you teach the right therapy values to therapists. Thank the man who talks about the bad things in psychiatry We want to help people not the lies behind psychiatry now. thank you for letting me speak.

  • howard thronk

    No one? My my. How come? Ok, let’s have some fun and challenge all these ridiculous statements. Like taking candy from babies.

    Red, Try reading Ned Hallowell who has it and has been working with the maligned ADHD folks for 25 years.

    Becca, no one said meds were the only effective tool.

    Ms Goodpuds, prove your hypothesis. You cannot.

    Do any of you have ADHD? Not a one, huh? Not surprised. Don’t pretend to know what we experience and what we find helpful. Don’t think you know us. Don’t believe for a split second you speak for us. You know zip. From your ridiculous statements alone you are all the proof ever needed that you have no clue what we have and how we’ve suffered. Speaking of suffering, how dare you tell us we don’t suffer from this disorder. How dare you pretend this disorder is an hallucination, an excuse to do drugs, an imaginary hoax perpetrated by pharmaceutical companies! Who gave you the authority to diagnose us from an internet connection? How do you know how medication helps us? You have NO, NONE, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, O, ZIP, idea. So, stop pretending. Drop your narcissism and listen. Just listen. Can you do that? I didn’t think so. But, until you do, listen, you will stay stuck as the ignorant, biased, arrogant FOOLS you are.

  • howard thronk

    That was your best effort? Syringomyelia? I have halitosis.

    Give us a chance without meds? No. Sorry. The ADHD police are working overtime to find all you lawbreakers. We have our ways of making you take your ADHD drugs. We have taken millions of children away from their parents for refusing to drug their kids. We have special camps for them! And you! O, yes we do. Certainly you’ve heard of them. At last count we have 57,000,025 children participating in our special places where we send naughty kids. 167, 009, 153 parents have been relocated to those wonderful havens where drugs is all we do. O, yes, my little chickadee, we have ways of encouraging you into good health. Don’t fight us. You cannot win. Take our drugs or else. We don’t mess.

  • howard thronk

    Must be nice to be gawd. These knuckleheads are able to perform thorough medical exams without a patient. Dig it. We worship you folks. Wish I could. How much you chargin for your secrets? O, I see. Just intuition , and hatred, red hot bitterness and fury, is all it takes. Well, count me in. I can be a hostile, know-it-all guru, too. Just imitate you all.

  • all too easy

    “Parents, teachers, and other professionals, as well as the general public, are being told that the child can’t pay attention or sit still because of “a chemical imbalance” in the brain. The fact, however, is that there is no evidence to support such contentions, and it is just as reasonable, and far more plausible, to conceptualize the matter as plain, old-fashioned misbehavior” Dr. Phil (It may be due to a chemical imbalance-that is how I understand their explanation.)
    Then, why does this misbehaving kid suddenly behave when medicated? Why does he pay attention and learn? How is he able to read without repeatedly starting over because he can’t recall what he just read? How does he do that doctor? What compels him to start behaving all of a sudden? Take your time to proffer your thorough, scientific, detailed analysis. No hurry, Dr. Take all the time in the world.
    (I mean, taking medication isn’t a form of plain, old-fashioned discipline, right? Plain, old-fashioned discipline is your rx for a misbehaving kid, after all, correct?)

  • all too easy

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  • all too easy

    Ahh. The loudmouths, the know-it-all big shots got nothin. Know why? Cause ADHD is all too real and these clowns have no clue. Spend the rest of your lives trying to prove it isn’t real. Have fun. You will never succeed, ever. Ain’t gonna happen.

    It is real and the damage it causes demands recognition. You will never silence those it has destroyed. Your attempts to do so replicate what we went through as little kids, when no one believed in it/us, or cared. We were dismissed. Just like now, as though we weren’t and aren’t aware of your filthy, condescending hate-filled attitudes that were killing us. You think we don’t know what you say about us? We’ve been told all our lives we are no good. We were misbehaving, Phil. We believed that lie. We tried harder and made bigger fools of ourselves. That is our problem, right Phil? Thanks for all you do to wipe us out. You have reinvigorated our resolve for proper recognition and adequate treatment and to be afforded all the civil rights stripped from us.

    All we wanted was to pay attention and learn- like every kid is curious and wants to learn-we longed to learn, you stupid, ignorant fools. You never bothered to ask us for our thoughts, our opinions, our descriptions of our experiences with this disorder. You have run around citing this and that and argued ceaselessly about minutiae and you never considered listening to us. You gonna hear from us now. Whether you want to or not. Enough.

  • Rebecca Smith

    my name is not becca. Please respect that. My name is Rebecca. By the by i was told i had ADHD. Yiu say i don’t know anyrhing. Try watching my kid taking ritalin…after a half day of barely having any emotions, by days end so angry he fought me, my hubby and anyone who was there. You should stop talking about me because again i say this a lot, you are too afraid to challenge authority over your health whatever the issue is. You have no idea of the trauma i went through taking all psych meds and how it hurt me. I am also tired of baseless knowledge of these so called helpful meds. Research if you want all sides of it. I did just that as well. Tge sad fact of my problem is i just cant take many meds all of them. My son cannot either. He looks at me like i am lying, why? Because the huddled masses will believe if it is kinda forced to be. You show me a kid who really wants to feel the crap my son felt after the rebound happens. Do not justify your fear or naivittnaivityy by bashing me for having a bad go with meds. You are not me. Go forth and take the meds but dont tout what you think you know. Whwn i speak on meds it is experience and research. So to end this i am not becca and yes i am a survivir of the medical community. Hate me, but the truth still is the truth. Sorry for any typos.

  • all too easy

    Well, thanks for sharing. Good luck. Take care. Who is next?

  • all too easy

    “The notion that people are suffering needlessly implicitly postulates the existence of drugs that can literally cure the problems in feeling, thinking and behaving people experience, and that the benefits thereof outweigh the harms. This is isn’t true.”
    Making a preposterous statement like that is sufficiently convincing. can not have a discussion with you that would challenge me.
    There is no such implication postulated that a cure is available based on that information.

  • Rebecca Smith

    Here is the real question…who said ADHD was this bunch of symptoms or that? What gets me is the people who got hurt are wrong for what? As you all say we dont know, how do you? This whole vashing thing i get from only on here mostly is due to whomever thought the docs had best interests in the patient is why the fight starts. Can anyone who has been diagnosed say it is that? I was diagnosed with adhd by the way. You know how a battery of psych tests, which were different from what the other tests said. MMPI usage is a better look at the psychology of the mind the random testing on how good you think or fast. Wise up everyone gets wound up. We all have adrenalin responses. You dingy people who get mad at anyone who has a mind to question things then you pretty much dumb yourselves down by not going outside the box. I dont want to be mean, but getting lumped into i dont know, yes i do. Again you dont know me. And yet again before hurting others just because we have a different opinion blows. We are humans and no illness should make us feel defensive towards anyone to prove who is right or wrong. Somewhere psychiatry became a mudslinging bunch of hot heads. I think if we stop fighting and learn from mistakes, like antidepressant overuse, better trials of meds, better therapy for those who are like me, and lastly help for every variation in mental health. No more just pills and hope or making me feel bad for having a duplicate gene. I did not ask for that either. For those who are mean to people who are hurting and need help, besides with meds and then you belittle us, you are just as stigmatizing as those who give mental health a bad name.

  • all too easy

    why does this misbehaving kid suddenly behave when medicated?
    i know. good luck phil

  • all too easy

    Uh oh! Too tough for the antipsychiatry nuts out there. Therein lies the problem. Move these insulting lightweights off their prerehearsed talking points and they bolt.

    Tell me, I can’t pay attention without meds; what do you recommend for someone like me?

  • all too easy

    What is ADHD? If it doesn’t exist, one prescribed med is abusive. If it is diagnosed once, that means it is over diagnosed.
    If it is real, then what?
    So, is it or isn’t it real as defined by DSM criteria?
    You say it is not.
    I say it is. I have it. I know more about it than you. I know it from the literature and from within. I know what it is without meds and what it is like with meds, short and long term. I have sat at the feet of the preeminent scholar in the field. No one who disagrees that it is real has provided one scintilla of evidence that it is not.
    It makes no difference to me what you think, except for the sake of kids and adults who are suffering and will suffer needlessly because of the absolute nonsense you push. That bothers me. You are bullying people who are already bullied and practically defenseless. I detest bullies.

  • You ask about ADHD “So, is it or isn’t it real as defined by DSM criteria? ”

    You draw a false dichotomy, I think. ADHD may exist, but the description provided in the DSM criteria doesn’t make it exist or justify medication. What is abundantly clear from multiple sources is that the disorder label is assigned far too often by school psychologists who are not appropriately trained to do so, and who spend too little time with their “patients” to know one way or another the nature of their attention problems.

    Likewise, the burden of proof is NOT on those who disagree that ADHD as characterized in the DSM is real. That burden is and should be on those who assert that the problem requires medication that creates horrid side effects in many of the MILLIONS who now take it.

  • all too easy

    No sir. You missed it again. Over diagnosing, underdiagnosing have zilch to do with the reality of ADHD. It exists or it doesn’t.

    Here is a good example of a nothing argument, “the description provided in the DSM criteria doesn’t make it exist” If you’ll notice, this silly statement has nothing to do with the topic and it was never implied that the DSM made it exist by defining it. Usually, I ignore these things. They are a waste of time.

    It matters not one bit who has the burden for anything in this context. “Antieverything” raise this issue constantly. This was your opportunity to state clearly why it does or does not exist. You tried mot to respond by shifting a non-topic on to me. This strategy is employed ad infinitum by these folks.

    Here we go: “What is abundantly clear from multiple sources is that the disorder label is assigned far too often by school psychologists…” Not relevant and it matters not what a school official may call it. An M.D. must prescribe the meds.
    You got nothing.

  • all too easy

    “Note how Dr. Insel equates psychiatric problems with real illnesses such as diabetes and immune problems. The big difference, of course, is that real physicians don’t invent the illnesses they treat, as do psychiatrists.” Dr. Phil
    Well, you finally got em, doc. How did you know? Okay, I’ll confess.
    The boys and I was sittin round late one night to throw back a few and play some cards, see, when Bernie says, “Yo. I gots here a little scheme here to make some big bucks. You boys in,” he coughed, as his nickel cigar burned his lip. “Tell us more hot shot.” “Well, see, say we pretend millions are sick pukes, see, and we gots a little somethin to ease their pain, see?” “What are you hollerin? That’s insane.” “No, that’s what we tell them, see. Us and the druggies fake the whole thing. We tell all these guys they gots something they ain’t and then we sell em billions of bucks worth of crazy drugs that don’t do nothing, but they think they help, see? It can’t fail!”
    I’ll be honest. That how it started, over brewskies and 5 card stud.

  • …. And the MD will make the prescription on the basis of a 10 minute office consult — the same way that he or she prescribes anti-depressants to mildly to moderately depressed people that such remedies help no more than placebos.

    However, you do not need to rely on my authority as a layman who reads this blog and other areas of medical literature. Many professionals in psychiatry and psychology share the concern that the US population is over-medicated. No less an authority than Dr. Allen Frances, the task force chair for the DSM-IV has written in his recent book “Saving Normal” of the gross over-prescription of stimulants to adolescents labeled with ADHD. I’d have to say that Dr. Frances has reasonable authority and experience to make that finding. Wouldn’t you agree? Or do you discount his experience because it doesn’t agree with your own.

    The “exists or doesn’t exist” argument is totally bogus. I’m not saying that nobody has unusual or even intractable problems with focus and attention in school or social situations. Some people quite observably do. What I argue with instead is the “incidence” or commonality of this type of problem, and the need for treating it always and aggressively with medications that create harms for many as well as helps for some.

    You have used a broad-brush label of “scientism” in an effort to discredit critics of the over-prescription of medications. That label is simply invalid. There is AMPLE evidence for the harms done by over-prescription, and for the relationship between medication use and Pharmaceutical company lobbying and undue influence on both individual doctors and standards of care. Big Pharma has paid out billions of dollars in law suits for false advertising. They continue the same fraudulent practices because they’re still profiting.

  • all too easy

    “This position flies in the face of decades of research which clearly show that ADHD is a genetic disorder characterized by hypofunctioning of the frontal lobes leading to a relative deficit of executive function. This part of the brain serves as a “resource allocator” – allocating brain resources to various tasks. Relative lack of this function results in a reduced ability to pay attention to the things we should be paying attention to.” Novella

  • Rebecca Smith

    I am with you on this one. Abused children act as much the same as kids who are diagnosed with adhd. If the teachers had done thwirvhomework my kid woyld not have been labeled adhd. He was abused. That issue cannot get better with meds. Tharapy. I will say this outright, anyone challenges me or says ill of what i said are in my book bullies. They use demeanong words to gain support and nasty tactics to get their words as real. All kids who hurt that is real. Labeling hurts as much as you say helps.

  • all too easy

    Kids who are abused act the same as ADHD kids. Prove it. How do you know abused kids can’t be helped by meds? You can’t know how your kid may have been labeled. They, nurses, cannot treat your kid with ADHD meds. Calling your son abused is labelling him.

  • all too easy

    Your off topic answer fulfills just what I predicted.

  • “All Too Easy” — I’m not sure what you intended by listing Peter Breggin’s books. For whatever this is worth, I was a guest on his hour-long Internet Radio show last year. We spoke around the theme “It’s NOT all in your head” and the lack of science or evidence behind pretty much the entire field of so-called “psychosomatic” medicine. I also read his “Guilt, Shame and Anxiety: Understanding and Overcoming Negative Emotions” before publication. I don’t fully agree with all of Dr. Breggin’s ideas about empathic therapy. The evidence in randomized trials of psychotherapy is simply too spotty and the published work too weak. But he’s been careful in documenting the sorry record of neuroleptic and anti-psychotic drugs, over a twenty-five year period, from many published sources. And if I’ve read him correctly, then I think he would agree that kids are vastly over-diagnosed and over-treated for ADHD.

    Also useful reading in the psychosomatic aspect of the current topic is Angela Kennedy’s “Authors of Our Own Misfortune — Problems With Psychogenic Explanations for Physical Illnesses.”


  • all too easy

    Odd, isn’t it? You never explained what ADHD is, just as I predicted. You have diverted attention from that fundamental question I asked in each of your additional posts. You have one person insisting it is real as defined by the DSM. Everyone else on this site claims it is not. Yet, none of the overwhelming majority can explain why it isn’t such a disorder when debating one individual who happens to know this subject better than anyone they ever encountered.

    I invite Breggin and his friends to jump on board right here right now. They don’t dare. They will go out of the anti business like that!

  • If I may draw a minor play on words, it seems to me that you aren’t “all too easy” at all. You’re just too convinced of your own position to listen to anybody else.

    Being defined by the DSM does NOT make anything “real”. For example, homosexuality was once defined by the DSM as a mental disorder (called a “perversion”) — a position since overturned. Likewise, the topics introduced around this discussion are quite pertinent, even if you don’t wish to acknowledge them.

    There is a well known scientific dictum that “there are no negative proofs.” The absolute non-existence of anything can never be “proven” because we cannot test or verify an infinite number of possibilities. What we can do is to demonstrate a preponderance of evidence for or against a proposition. Advocates for ADHD haven’t done that.

    More important, critics don’t need to demonstrate that ADHD doesn’t exist — Instead, the advocates for this disorder and its medication treatments need to prove that some medical entity does exist which requires treatment of millions of kids with stimulants that cause obesity and problems with sexual development. A balance must be demonstrated between benefits and harms.

    ADHD, like many other diagnostic labels in the DSM is an invented entity without scientific support. ADHD is aggressively being marketed as a reason for costly and dangerous medication of millions of young people. As Allen Frances points out, there’s ample reason to consider ADHD as largely a psychiatric fad, gradually being recognized as such. There are many other examples of similar fads in other fields of psychiatry.

    None of this detracts from the reality that SOME kids do have severe attention problems, and SOME of those who have such problems are helped by medications. The issue for both public policy and medical practice standards is to better understand what fraction of those now under medication actually need to be, versus those who are better served by other forms of intervention, or no intervention at all. Dr. Hickey’s article addresses these larger issues. Your critique doesn’t add to that discussion in any constructive way that I can see.

  • all too easy

    Then Baughman and Breggin are lying. No kidding. To state that ADHD doesn’t exist and it is a total fraud are filthy, putrid lies.

    It does exist, as you concede. No kidding. Now stop perpetuating the garbage they sell.

  • all too easy

    Clinical and Research News
    ADHD Medications Linked to Lower Crime Rates
    Joan Arehart-Treichel

  • all too easy

    White-Matter Connectivity and Methylphenidate-Induced Changes in Attentional Performance According to α2A-Adrenergic Receptor Gene Polymorphisms in Korean Children With Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder

    ADHD subjects with the T allele at the DraI polymorphism showed a smaller reduction in the number of commission errors after MPH treatment and decreased white-matter connectivity in the right frontal region than those without the T allele. Commission errors are an indicator of deficits in response inhibition, which is proposed to be the core deficit in ADHD.20 MPH increases the signal-to-noise ratio of the dopamine-containing neurons in the frontal region by stimulating the α2-adrenergic receptors, thereby controlling their response inhibition.21,22 Although the potential functional significance of the DraI polymorphism is not well understood, the T allele at the DraI polymorphism may adversely affect the expression and/or function of ADRA2A, thereby preventing beneficial effect of MPH and resulting in the decreased white-matter connectivity in the frontal region. Although statistically nonsignificant, higher baseline ADHD-RS scores and less improvement in response time variability scores in subjects with the T allele at the DraI polymorphism also support the idea that this allele is associated with more severe and less treatment-responsive ADHD.

  • all too easy

    Noradrenergic dysfunction may be associated with cognitive impairments in attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), including increased response time variability, which has been proposed as a leading endophenotype for ADHD. The aim of this study was to examine the relationship between polymorphisms in the α-2A-adrenergic receptor (ADRA2A) and norepinephrine transporter (SLC6A2) genes and attentional performance in ADHD children before and after pharmacological treatment.One hundred one medication-naive ADHD children were included. All subjects were administered methylphenidate (MPH)-OROS for 12 weeks. The subjects underwent a computerized comprehensive attention test to measure the response time variability at baseline before MPH treatment and after 12 weeks. Additive regression analyses controlling for ADHD symptom severity, age, sex, IQ, and final dose of MPH examined the association between response time variability on the comprehensive attention test measures and allelic variations in single-nucleotide polymorphisms of the ADRA2A and SLC6A2 before and after MPH treatment.Increasing possession of an A allele at the G1287A polymorphism of SLC6A2 was significantly related to heightened response time variability at baseline in the sustained (P = 2.0 × 10) and auditory selective attention (P = 1.0 × 10) tasks. Response time variability at baseline increased additively with possession of the T allele at the DraI polymorphism of the ADRA2A gene in the auditory selective attention task (P = 2.0 × 10). After medication, increasing possession of a G allele at the MspI polymorphism of the ADRA2A gene was associated with increased MPH-related change in response time variability in the flanker task (P = 1.0 × 10).Our study suggested an association between norepinephrine gene variants and response time variability measured at baseline and after MPH treatment in children with ADHD. Our results add to a growing body of evidence, suggesting that response time variability is a viable endophenotype for ADHD and suggesting its utility as a surrogate end point for measuring stimulant response in pharmacogenetic studies.

  • all too easy

    What is ADHD? So far, no one on this site has offered an accurate, thorough, scientific answer. For the haters, that is a disgrace. They know it is a fraud, even though they can’t define what it is that doesn’t exist. No evidence it is a lack of discipline or misbehavior.

  • all too easy

    The answer according to the big boys of the anti everything gang? Do nothing. Tell parents and teachers to say, “pay attention” more and use discipline on those naughty kids. They have volumes of the latest research demonstrating how these methods have blown the modern techniques out of the water. Which means, 0. They have 0 proof they have treated anyone successfully, ever, even once. Yet, they demand everyone else prove efficacy.

    Meanwhile, back at school, the kids fail and hurt like hell. Thanks boys. Keep up ruining lives.

  • all too easy

    We examined the association between the selected polymorphisms in two candidate genes, the arsenite methyltransferase gene (AS3MT, rs11191454) and the inter-α-trypsin inhibitors heavy chain-3 gene (ITIH3, rs2535629), and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in a Korean population. A total of 238 patients with ADHD, along with both of their biological parents, were recruited. The children were administered intelligence quotient tests, whereas their parents completed the Child Behavior Checklist. In the transmission disequilibrium test on 181 trios, we found overtransmission of the A allele at the AS3MT rs11191454 polymorphism in children with ADHD (χ2=8.81, P=0.003). However, there was no preferential transmission at the ITIH3 rs52535629 polymorphism (χ2=0.14, P=0.707). Our results provide preliminary evidence for the overtransmission of the A allele at the AS3MT rs11191454 polymorphism in ADHD.

    Copyright © 2015 Wolters Kluwer Health, Inc. All rights reserved.

  • all too easy

    This whole business was a very black chapter in a profession not noted for its moral or intellectual integrity, and resulted not only in a 40-fold increase in the “diagnosis of bipolar disorder”, but also an unprecedented increase in the prescription of neuroleptic drugs to children
    You are funny, dr.
    Have you ever seen an article praising the adhd diagnosis and the medical treatment for it in a real life situation that transformed the life of a person devastated by it?

  • Rebecca Smith

    I am done with you disgusting look at everything. Do not day avuse is a label. Ass i was too. I am not a label for being abused. PTSD is a label as much as adhd, but abuse cannot be ever minimized by a label. Please REFRAIN From answering me with you smalk ideas of what yoy wrnt through with adhd now. I am really sick of your attacking people because you want to be adhd or are. I get it you eant to take meds take them happuly knowing youyou are better for it. Just never mininize abuse to labels. Were you? Mysons abuse was horrible and everyone just thought he was adhd because of acting out. They missed it at school and why because they missed the signs. Me i was freaking medicated to the point of suicidal thinking. Shut up you made your point.

  • Rebecca Smith

    Phil may i ask you tell the man who is demeaning people to be way more respectful or to stop the pot shots at abuse. I have dealt with enough of people to know when too far is too far. He has no idea what kibd of struggles i have and it irritates me to diwnplay abuse as a label. My abuse is not labeled my emotions after the fact are. Too far.

  • all too easy


  • all too easy

    Phil, explain why tell the world I am undisciplined, when you have never met me? Why insult someone you don’t know especially when all he ever wanted was to perform in school and in life? You have a PhD!

  • all too easy


    Volume: 59

    Issue: 1

    Pages: 78-82

    DOI: 10.1203/01.pdr.0000191143.75673.52

    Antenatal maternal anxiety has been shown to be related to infant temperament, childhood disorders, and impulsivity in adolescence. This study prospectively investigated whether antenatal maternal anxiety is associated with performance on a continuous performance task. Sixty-four adolescents (mean age, 15 y; 34 boys, 30 girls) were examined with a computerized continuous performance task (CPT) measuring sustained attention. Results showed that the CPT performance of boys of mothers with high levels of state anxiety during the 12th to 22nd postmenstrual week of pregnancy declined as the task progressed: their processing speed became slower and the variability in their reaction times increased. The study controlled for the possible confounding influences of postnatal maternal anxiety, the parents’ educational level, and intelligence. Establishing a link between antenatal maternal anxiety and an objective measure of sustained attention/self-regulation, our results extend the growing evidence for an association between antenatal maternal anxiety and the neurobehavioral development of the offspring up into adolescence.

  • all too easy

    Background:  There are some indications that maternal lifestyle during pregnancy (smoking and stress) contributes to symptoms of ADHD in children. We prospectively studied whether prenatal exposure to maternal smoking and/or stress is associated with ADHD symptoms and diagnostic criteria (according to DSM-IV) in 7-year-olds.

    Methods:  Nulliparous Scandinavian women were consecutively recruited at their first prenatal health care visit and assessments of smoking and stress were collected at gestational weeks 10, 12, 20, 28, 32, and 36. Children were followed up at 7 years old. We obtained full data for 72% of the sample: ADHD symptoms were rated by 74% of mothers (n = 290) and 96% of eligible teachers (n = 208). Attrition analyses showed no differences on key variables between participants and non-participants at follow-up.

    Results:  Results of multiple regression analyses showed prenatal exposure to smoking (β = .16, p < .01) and stress (β = .18, p < .01) were independently associated with later symptoms of ADHD. Results of logistic regression analyses showed that fulfillment of the diagnostic criteria for ADHD was related to exposure to prenatal stress (β = .68, p < .01) especially in boys. The results were not confounded by sociodemographic factors or birth outcomes.

    Conclusions:  This study provides evidence that prenatal exposure to stress and smoking is independently associated with later symptoms of ADHD in human children, particularly for boys. Because stress and smoking are relatively common during pregnancy, and yet preventable, these results are of public health significance.

    Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry

    Volume 46, Issue 3, pages 246–254, March 2005

  • Phil_Hickey


    I know. But I have a very liberal policy with regards to censorship on the site. As you know, my general practice is to engage in dialogue with people of opposing views. But with people whose only agenda is to spew venom, I think the best policy is just to ignore them.

    Try not to let him/her get under your skin.

    Best wishes.

  • all too easy

    Speaking of venom, thanks Phillip. You have no idea. Perhaps one day, if you wake up you in time, you will comprehend how poisonous your claims about ADHD and those who have suffered with it really are. They really are. If you knew, you would be devastated for what you have done, unless, you are a masochist and derive pleasure from further damning a whole slew of people who have been damned all their days.
    You call me and those with adult ADHD, liars and misbehaving, undisciplined, deluded, doped-up addicts. Our parents and teachers flailed us as children. They must be blamed, too, for what you consider moral failures. That is absolutely ridiculous.
    I am telling you and everyone with ears, ADHD is a real disorder of the brain. 80 percent of those properly diagnosed and treated with medication respond favorably. I am just one among a multitude who has experienced the wonder working power of Ritalin and other drugs.
    Do you know what it’s like to be called stupid and dumb and to be laughed at, to your face and behind your back, your whole life?
    Do you, Phil? Yes or no?

  • Rebecca Smith

    I know, but too far is too far. He jas no right to be that mean to people. In retrospect at least people will see he seems to be self serving in trying to deny the truth. No one knows for sure about adhd and he seems fanatic in his quest. I was not really angryvtil the potshot at abuse. Was he? Can he truly say he knows it is a label? Not gonna mudsling abuse. Hurting others besides him not eirth even my pride.

  • Rebecca Smith

    I think i do, just by your comments to me. Why are you so angry at me. Because i have been abused called names and all that. I dont blame a disorder for people being mean. That is people. Does not make it right to demean people. You use adhd to be mean. You were by minimizing my hurt i have gotten at a age where i was not able to fight. I dont blame a disorder just that person. By getting balls and hurting people just makes you part of the problem. Not that you care. You like being right. You like trying to be smarter than others. Why not be happy you feel better? Or are you?

  • all too easy

    Got to love ya, Phil. You have a standard for you and the anti crowd and a slightly different one for others. Your vitriol is lovely, beautiful, insightful, accurate and justified. Telling you that you are wrong and asking that you cease and desist from making nasty, cruel, inaccurate, ridiculous slurs somehow is unacceptable.

    I think you are as big of a phony as Breggin, Baughman and others who denounce ADHD as made up, contrived, a conspiracy born out of greed and conspiracy. You and they have done nothing but heap criticism on us. We don’t deserve it and are done letting you get away with it without responding. We seek legal remedies to make you stop.

    You have never met me. For you to broadbrush me proves you are lying.

  • all too easy

    “you are a masochist and derive pleasure”
    should be sadist

  • all too easy

    “The “exists or doesn’t exist” argument is totally bogus. I’m not saying that nobody has unusual or even intractable problems with focus and attention in school or social situations. Some people quite observably do.” Big Red
    Whether it is or isn’t is the key. If it isn’t, I have no dog in this fight. If it does exist, it is critical to study it, the people with it, what works and what doesn’t. Everything hinges upon whether or not it is. That’s the place to start any debate. Very simple.

  • all too easy

    This is a bit funny. The fact that Beiderman and others were paid consultants automatically proved their analysis of meds was filled with deception, according to the haters who have never substantiated that ADHD is a parenting and a disciplinary problem. Isn’t that special?

    The testing protocols for every drug tested and approved are published in the public domain. Anyone can challenge the validity of the procedures used and the results they got. Not so with the haters. They have the luxury of saying whatever they want with impunity. I am happy to be busting up the image they have manufactured as a pseudo-scientific, delightful, sincere bunch of crusaders for the people. They have no ethics and no genuine concern for our health, unless they can make profits through all the bologna they market.

  • all too easy

    “More important, critics don’t need to demonstrate that ADHD doesn’t exist — Instead, the advocates for this disorder and its medication treatments need to prove that some medical entity does exist…” BIG RED

    Why? What needs proving? Legal meds are prescribed by licensed medical doctors. You have already lost the debate. Apparently, the requisite proof has been proffered and accepted by the powers you detest. Not my problem.

    Now, remember, that the Masters of your faith, Baughman and his Band Of Befuddled Boobs have stated over and over that ADHD is a total fraud, that it absolutely, positively does not exist. You, in an act of tremendous courage, say they cannot make that claim. Can’t prove a negative, you say, right? “The absolute non-existence of anything can never be “proven” because we cannot test or verify an infinite number of possibilities.”

    Unfortunately, you prove that your courage is fleeting when you add, “ADHD, like many other diagnostic labels in the DSM is an invented entity without scientific support. ADHD is aggressively being marketed as a reason for costly and dangerous medication of millions of young people.” BIG RED

    Here, you backtrack and double-talk, a common, persistent character flaw in the antis. You contradict yourself by claiming that indeed it does not exist because, BECAUSE, it is an invention!

    “…which requires treatment of millions of kids with stimulants that cause obesity and problems with sexual development. A balance must be demonstrated between benefits and harms.” BIG RED

    Whether it is over-diagnosed or under-diagnosed, has nothing to do with the debate. Plus, let this sink in. Nothing requires nothing. 5 x 0= 4356724357? Ahh. Try 0, right? If it isn’t, you can’t treat it.

  • all too easy

    “This is a frequently-heard psychiatric assertion, but it is beside the point. It is indeed the case that GP’s and various medical specialists prescribe psychiatric drugs for various problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving, but they can only do so because psychiatry has developed and promoted the fiction that these problems are illnesses, and the drugs are medications.”
    As you blame psychiatry for over-prescribing drugs, keep in mind that you just acknowledged how GPs and others prescribe the same meds, but you exclude them in your criticisms. Beautiful.

  • all too easy

    Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder

    Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is characterized by inattention, hyperactivity, and impulsivity. Although ADHD occurs most frequently in school-age children, it can also be found in adults, often in attenuated forms. At least two forms of impulsivity have been extensively documented for children and adults with ADHD. First, children and adolescents with ADHD show steeper temporal discounting than age-matched control subjects (Rapport et al., 1986; Sonuga-Barke et al., 1992; Schweitzer and Sulzer-Azaroff, 1995; Barkley et al., 2001) or children with autism spectrum disorders (Demurie et al., 2012). Second, individuals with ADHD also tend to display motor impulsivity, and show impairments in suppressing undesirable movements. In particular, during the stop-signal task, the amount of time necessary for inhibitory signals to abort the pre-planned movement, commonly referred to as the stop-signal reaction time, increases in people with ADHD (Oosterlaan et al., 1998; Aron et al., 2003; Verbruggen and Logan, 2008). The time scale for common intertemporal choice often ranges from days to months, whereas the relevant time scale for motor impulsivity is usually less than a second. Despite this large difference in time scale, both changes in temporal discounting and increased motor impulsivity imply alterations in temporal processing. Accordingly, it has been proposed that the behavioral impairments in the ADHD might result fundamentally from timing deficits (Toplak et al., 2006; Rubia et al., 2009; Noreika et al., 2013).

    Neurochemically, ADHD might result from lower levels of dopamine and/or norepinephrine in the brain (Volkow et al., 2009; Arnsten and Pliszka, 2011). Accordingly, symptoms of ADHD can often be ameliorated by stimulants, such as methylphenidate, that increase the level of dopamine and norepinephrine (Gamo et al., 2010). For example, stimulant medication decreased the steepness of temporal discounting in children with ADHD (Shiels et al., 2009). In addition, the ability to suppress preplanned but undesirable movements was enhanced by stimulant medication during the stop signal task (Aron et al., 2003). Currently, it remains uncertain whether these effects of medication used to treat ADHD on decision making and response inhibition are mediated by dopaminergic or noradrenergic systems (Gamo et al., 2010). Nonstimulant drugs that increase the level of both dopamine and norepinephrine (Bymaster et al., 2002) also improve response inhibition (Chamberlain et al., 2009). In addition, administration of guanfacine, an agonist for α2 adrenergic receptors, diminishes the preference for immediate reward during an intertemporal choice task in monkeys (Kim et al., 2012a). Most of these drugs also tend to enhance task-related activity in the prefrontal cortex during a working memory task (Gamo et al., 2010), suggesting that the therapeutic effects of ADHD medication might be mediated by improving the functions of the prefrontal cortex.


    Volume 78, Issue 2, 24 April 2013, Pages 233–248

  • Rebecca Smith

    I want to say that i am really tired of this one guy. I have had it up to here about how we don’t know about ADHD. I want to end the anger we feel when they are just behaving the way learned to behave when told no it is does not all have this neat little place. I will say what I know off the top of my head both side of it too. Okay It is mostly said be found in children the drugs of choice are stimulants. Adults who have ADHD should not be taking the stimulants in what I have read before ,but they do have some meds they said were for adults as well. Some of the meds even are no in the class of stimulants at least I thought I saw the newer drugs made were not classified that way. The dopamine when low in people is said to cause the brain to not focus as much asa person with normal amounts of dopamine. It is said with ADHD the meds do help the children who take it and it helps them focus more in school. Okat this is what I learned while we were trying to find a happy medium with my sons behavior troubles.

    Now I am going to say this and say what I had found about behaviors is even they are dopamine related they are still learned behaviors and the dopamine has nothing to do with how they act when the behaviors have been learned,. And I can find in the DSM somewhere if I feel like really looking for it that they said in this book behaviors are not as easy to change as say the troubles with the dopamine alone causing the trouble. As with meds you give a stimulant to a kid who has a whole lot of behavior issues you have no idea really if they will help or not. it is not my opnion all that much either i can find what i need for this. I had to i have a nephew who is the worst and he has many behavior problems and other things as well. I looked it up because we were trying to find what kind of help we could get for him that he might want to do.

    Okay this is where i gibve my opinion and person experience of ADHD in both adults and children. It will anger the all to easy i am sure but it needs to be looked at as well. I feel you are saying this to me because you say it, it is true. How do we know if you are tellnig the truth. ALl i see is someone who wants to cause trouble with the others who have their own opinion . I dont think you get you are acting like it is all or nothing and I do know some of the symptoms of a behavior called borderline personality disorder look it up. Guess what they do not give meds as a first line of defense for behaviors they use certain types of therapy for this. You should look this up as well. I do believe that they try to use this with adults alone. I have not seen anything on it for kids. I am not trying to anger you, but you get angry anyways no matter what we try to say to you it iwll be twisted. I can get the dsm criteria for this if you ask. I had had this for a little while and I know that it is a byproduct of PTSD another dsm category. You want to know why they now talk about it because it was being showed the vets were dealing with this after they came back from war. Trauma imitates ADHD in some respects and it has a lot od the same symptoms. Despite your knowledge did you ever look to see this. They use therapy as well fro this as a first line of defense. You cant just med your way through the memories at all. I know this as well. No dunned to say why. I have a big interest in anything that can be used to help the mentally ill. I can say this you are not the cure. You make everyone who has had so many problems just say wow that is why i wanted out. i dont want to be the way all to easy is. He is trying so hard to be right. He will bust through everyone and to me that is a behavior issue. I may not be a doctor, but I have worked and lived and had many friends with mental illnesses and you just are the enemy to them. I think you should stop fighting and learn how to control your behaviors whichever please you. Do not try to hurt people for a point that is just wrong. I do not care after this what you say. It is not going to change you or me.

    This may be long but it is worth my time. Educating yourself of the things in mental health is hard and we have a lot problems getting along and it wont help everyone. I see why the people get mad at all too easy,,,he says things that are childish and mean. He wants to blame his illness let him. I say let us keep no trying to get to a happy medium with the those for meds. I know what is the problem too we were duped by the mental health professionals about the meds and yes it should get us mad. I was told so many times I needed the meds that when cps came around they had that idea too for people who have mental illnesses not even knowing not every can really take the stuff. So to say we each get benefit is wrong as being human and having original minds and sets of things it is never right to go with the norm.

    Ending this long drawn out comment. Please all of us here try to get past the angers of those who are for meds. They were told the same things we were. It is sad to see they are not thinking with what they have. Most of the people who are so for are very smart they just want it to be right. When you find out that everything you put into having lets say bipolar is all wrong or even half wrong it kind of kicks you in the pants. We gotta take the good when the bad is overruling the brain. I have no qualms about what I feel and think if those who want to help others getting off the meds if they so choose we should be there for those who do want to. Let the ones who think the meds are helping go on til they get hurt. It is a human condition too.

  • Rob Bishop

    What’s the definition of the term “behavior problem”? What does it mean? Behavior some people disapprove of or wish would go away?

  • Rebecca Smith

    I am going to reply to this because it seems that abuse is a label in your eyes, but in mine it is what it is abuse is not a label and to me you are being closed minded about what abuse does to a person. Look at people who have been abused and also the combat troops who have PTSD. That is the definition as with ADHD. You can say anything to people just to get a rise out of them, but do you realize you are isolating yourself for a cause you are not even sure is the truth. Have you looked into the con side of ADHD. Have you done a critical look at the disorder itself. Checked your sources against the ones who are in favor of it being recognized. Do you even know that abuse is not a label it is what happens to a person when that are beaten, neglected or forced to have sex before the age of consent. Is this what you call a label? Can you send me the real proof that abuse is a label? how can you know if you haven’t been through it. I am guessing because you have this idea to just bust everyone else for your own gain. It is selfish to want it to be what you say. How about you actually show both sides and then you can critique both as much as you want. My son was not labeled with abuse, but with ADHD when there were all the signs he was getting hurt. I also know if the so called pdocs had been paying more attention I could have caught what it was before it got where it did. It is because of the very drugs you actually think can help everyone , yet for me it just screwed me up more. I don’t care to get into a pissing match bring on what you can find for both sides and see how you look at it. You can be close minded, but than you are limited to the closed mind you tout to be your saving grace and your being superior to others on here. Go look up narcissism and see if what you do fits that too, Anything can be fit into a box if you manipulate the facts enough. Abuse you cannot manipulate unless you are trying to get to a selfish means to prove a point like you tried on here. I am not the smartest person out there, but emotionally I am more intelligent than most. WHY? the abuse gave more of a emotional opening to others who are looking for answers like you. Don’t blast everyone work with us and we will hear you as well. Don’t get a selfish attitude about this topic it will make you look like you are only thinking of you.